Senedd members quizzed Natural Resources Wales officials amid concerns about plans to cut 265 jobs to plug a £13 million budget gap while water pollution in Wales worsens.

Llŷr Gruffydd, who chairs the climate change committee, pressed NRW officials about immediate action to address a decline in Welsh Water's environmental performance.

Sian Williams, head of operations at NRW, accepted that Welsh Water's performance has worsened this year following a decline in the year before too.

Ms Williams told the Senedd committee: "It's something that concerns us as the regulators and it's something that we're calling on Welsh Water to respond to swiftly."

She was alarmed by increases in pollution incidents and the number of significant incidents that have the biggest impact on nature as well as a decline in compliance with permits.

Prosecutions

Delyth Jewell, Plaid Cymru's shadow climate change secretary, asked for details of potential prosecutions of any water companies for pollution or permit non-compliance.

Nadia De Longhi, NRW's head of regulation and permitting, would not go into specific detail of prosecution cases that are still being developed.

But she pointed to 483 enforcement cases since 2018, with about 400 resolved – mostly through warning letters or formal cautions – three prosecutions and 46 cases outstanding.

Questioned by the Conservatives' Janet Finch-Saunders, who suggested too few people are taken to court, Ms De Longhi said NRW can currently only recover costs via prosecution.

She replied: "I think, broadly, the numbers that end up in court are the right ones. We consider very carefully which cases need to proceed to prosecution."

'Taken to the cleaners'

Raising constituents' concerns, Mr Gruffydd warned it feels like one rule for big players like Welsh Water but another for Joe Bloggs who is "taken to the cleaners".

Ms De Longhi said factors taken into consideration include the severity of the pollution incident and the intent of those involved, with decisions guided by the public interest.

Asked by Labour's Julie Morgan about Westminster's water bill, Ms De Longhi welcomed the proposals to strengthen NRW's regulatory powers and automatic penalties for pollution.

On concerns about revenue from penalties going to the UK rather than the Welsh treasury, she told the committee NRW currently has limited powers to issue civil sanctions.

Ms De Longhi said she envisages some of the funding being returned to NRW via grants.

'Bureaucracy'

Labour's Carolyn Thomas asked whether S4C's Y Byd ar Bedwar programme, which warned of bureaucracy and inaction at NRW, was a fair reflection.

Ms Williams said she was disappointed by some of the allegations, stressing that NRW takes its responsibility for the environment seriously.

She pointed to "huge progress" over the past 30 years in improving water quality in Wales.

Pressed about claims 80% of permitted discharge permits not being monitored, Ms Williams said data on the programme was probably right.

Labour's Joyce Watson raised whistleblowers' claims "there's no point reporting pollution" to NRW, saying S4C found the body failed to respond to more than half of incidents in a year.

'Disappointed'

Ms Williams said she was disappointed by the way some information was interpreted on the programme but NRW will be reviewing how incidents are managed.

She cautioned: "We can't, I don't think, ever get to a place where we are responding to every single report that comes into us," but added that NRW could do more with further funding."

Mr Gruffydd warned a constituent called NRW's 24-hour hotline on a bank holiday weekend, wanting to report an incident, but there was no reply.

Ms Williams replied: "It shouldn't happen, we do have people there 24 hours a day."

Pressed about plans to plug a £13m budget gap by 2025, with the loss of 265 posts, Ms De Longhi said NRW would refocus resources on climate change and statutory work.

'Unpalatable'

She told the meeting on Thursday that the consultation has closed and responses are being considered by NRW's executive team before being brought to the board for approval.

Mr Gruffydd raised concerns about the "somewhat unsustainable" trajectory of NRW, with additional responsibilities as resources diminish.

He said: "As unpalatable as this process is, the hope is you do this once and you do it properly and at the other side, that you become more sustainable...."

"How confident are you that that's the case?...in consolidating your focus on certain areas are you effectively saying 'this is as much as we can do'?"

Ms De Longhi said: "This isn't intended to be: we do this now then we need to do it again next year, for example....we're as confident as we can be that this will see us through the next few years."